Apple Says Former Engineer Used Stolen Trade Secrets at OpenAI, Taught AI Agent to Run Them - MacRumors
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Apple Says Former Engineer Used Stolen Trade Secrets at OpenAI, Taught AI Agent to Run Them

Apple today submitted new evidence in its lawsuit against OpenAI, with the hope that the new information will persuade the judge to grant an expedited discovery process.

OpenAI vs Apple Feature scaled
Apple filed a theft of trade secrets lawsuit against OpenAI employees Chang Liu and Tang Tan in July, accusing them of using multiple methods to steal data from Apple. Liu kept an Apple-issued MacBook after he left for OpenAI, and Apple got it back after the lawsuit was filed. Apple now says forensic analysis of the laptop has uncovered more evidence of Liu's use of Apple information and his attempts to hide what he'd done.

From the lawsuit:

  • Mr. Liu not only downloaded a confidential Apple circuit schematic but also used it in his work at OpenAI;
  • Far from his unauthorized access to Apple's third-party cloud storage being unknown to him, Mr. Liu and others at OpenAI were well-aware of that access;
  • Mr. Liu, upon learning of Apple's internal investigation of him, sent instructions for destroying evidence to an OpenAI colleague who confirmed she would comply; and
  • Mr. Liu used a tool in his work at OpenAI that has the same name as an internal Apple engineering application used for Apple development work.

Liu downloaded the circuit schematic from Apple in March, two months after he left the company. Liu used the schematic to run a simulation using electrical engineering tool LTspice, and then messaged people telling them he ran the simulation for power conversion development work. Liu described how he trained an AI agent to run LTspice.

According to the filing, he said he was "[f]eeling AI all day long," and that "[i]n the past hour," his AI "agent learned how to run LTspice, look at result, tune compensation parameter." "I try to make a behavior buck," he wrote. "With voltage outer and current inner. Everything ideal. It still took me a day.. now it's two hour. Including learning fresh."

"Oh man! Why do they even need you then?" the person Liu was talking to reportedly replied.

Liu used the Apple schematic on a Mac mini that later synced to the MacBook he took from Apple, which is why Apple knows about it. Apple now wants to investigate the ‌Mac mini‌ and other devices Liu still has in his possession.

Apple says the "shocking evidence" is proof that its trade secrets are in active use and evidence is being destroyed, which is why expedited discovery is needed.

Apple initially asked for expedited discovery earlier this month, also requesting an injunction preventing OpenAI from using its trade secrets. OpenAI responded by asking the court to dismiss the lawsuit, claiming the accusations were "meritless." OpenAI also published a public statement calling the lawsuit "careless, aggressive and oddly personal" and stating that it does not "have, nor want, any of their trade secrets" because it is "much more interested in building innovative products and technologies that push the frontier."

Judge Edward J. Davila is set to hear arguments in the case on October 1.

Tag: OpenAI

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Top Rated Comments

7 weeks ago
Apple’s allegations are so specific that I can’t see how there isn’t some fire behind all this smoke. And Apple is not institutionally mendacious, while OpenAI is literally run by a pathological liar, so…
Score: 20 Votes (Like | Disagree)
7 weeks ago

Too bad, y'all make trillions of dollars anyways...
At what amount of money is it suddenly ok for people to steal from me?
Score: 19 Votes (Like | Disagree)
7 weeks ago
While it's a mistake Apple didn't cut him off after he left, if you are a decent man (or woman), you don't use that access and certainly not in the way described in the lawsuit.

That's just not right. Everybody involved knew it. They should have known that they will all eventually be subpoenaed and subsequently fired.

But I guess, morality goes out of the window when you receive a multi-million dollar sign-up bonus.

Shame on these people.
Score: 16 Votes (Like | Disagree)
7 weeks ago
I'm willing to bet Apple left all access open to test the waters and see if they caught something.

They were probably suspicious of so many poaches of their employees over to this new AI startup that has yet to start making money.

It's one thing to move over to Intel/Microsoft/Meta/Alphabet/Amazon, and another, to a startup that offers you millions on top of hiring you and that has less than a decade alive.

There's probably a sly fox sitting at Apple in somewhere between management/security/engineer teams, and he is out for blood.
Score: 15 Votes (Like | Disagree)
jz0309 Avatar
7 weeks ago
the plot thickens so it seems ...
still puzzled that Apple allows(ed) employees to keep Apple issued devices after they left ...
Score: 15 Votes (Like | Disagree)
StudioMacs Avatar
7 weeks ago

Most amusing is Apple thinking it has anything AI related worth stealing, given they have to outsource if not outright acquire it from every other company.
This is about hardware, which openAI has no experience with despite teasing new products.
Score: 14 Votes (Like | Disagree)
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