Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak and Atari founder Nolan Bushnell held an hour-long talk at the C2SV Technology Conference which MacRumors attended today in San Jose, CA, with the two speaking about a variety of topics including reminiscing about Steve Jobs and the early days of Apple.

wozbushnell
The duo started out remembering how they first met, which was due to the influence of Jobs. Wozniak started out by remembering Jobs wanting to apply to Atari:

I'd known Steve Jobs for a long time. And I had seen Pong in a bowling alley and I had to have one. And pop in my head: I know how televisions work and I know how to design anything so I built my own Pong. And Steve came back from Oregon at the time, where he had been going to school, and I gave him my board. He wanted to run down and apply for a job at Atari.

Wozniak then mentioned how he was "so thankful" Atari hired Jobs even though Jobs wasn't an engineer, noting that he must have impressed Bushnell and Pong designer Al Alcorn with his high energy and enthusiasm. Bushnell agreed and related a story about how Jobs came in after just a couple of days on the job to tell Bushnell how no one at Atari knew how to solder.

He said: 'This stuff won't work for more than a few weeks without having failure. You've got to up your game a little bit.' And I say: well, do you know how to solder? And he says 'absolutely, this is shit'.

Prompted by that anecdote, Wozniak reminisced about how when he and Jobs were working on Breakout for Atari, Jobs avoided soldering and instead used wire wrapping.

Later in the conversation, when talking about the lack of venture capital in the early days of the Silicon Valley, the two had a lighthearted back-and-forth about Apple's early Apple I pitches to Atari and Commodore. Wozniak mentioned how Apple had to take on an investor at a certain point, prompting Bushnell to jokingly reply he wished that he had been that investor. Wozniak then countered, reminding Bushnell that he had rejected Apple's proposals:

We offered to Commodore directly making proposals and to Al Alcorn at his house making proposals, but you guys had the first Pong handle coming out and that was millions of dollars for you so your mind was so focused. You said 'we don't have time to make a computer also' and that came about later.

The two then debated what the original deal was, with Bushnell claiming the deal was $50,000 for a third of Apple while Wozniak said the deal was a few hundred thousand dollars, a position at Atari, Atari company stock, and to be in charge of the project. Eventually, Wozniak conceded, noting that he may not have known about Bushnell's claimed deal and quickly remembered how he wanted to keep quiet as he was amazed that Jobs was trying to get $300,000 from Commodore during that proposal.

Some time later, Bushnell praised Wozniak for creating the Apple II and noted that the computer's eight expansion slots turned out to be a "prescient" idea. Wozniak then admitted Apple didn't plan that and lucked into adding eight expansion slots because he insisted on them from his "geek" perspective.

The two wrapped up talking about Jobs by discussing the intensity of the young Jobs and how that is the one quality any future books or movies should hone in on. Wozniak noted that Jobs' intensity caused him to fail with some projects, like the Lisa and the early Macintosh effort, and only once Jobs learned patience to complement his intensity is when things really took off.

Top Rated Comments

Dulcimer Avatar
150 months ago
What a refreshing and excellent article on MacRumors. Fascinating to read about the early days of personal computing.
Score: 11 Votes (Like | Disagree)
iGrip Avatar
150 months ago
we know Jobs was more creator than engineer



He was mostly a salesman.
Score: 6 Votes (Like | Disagree)
Gemütlichkeit Avatar
150 months ago
Woz, try the Subway diet. You look 9 months pregnant... you're cutting years off your life.
Score: 5 Votes (Like | Disagree)
mdelvecchio Avatar
150 months ago
Woz is trying to exist (survive) in the media thanks to recalling Steve Jobs all the time... :rolleyes:
he doesn't need to. btw, you don't need to be over protective of a dead billionaire you've never met.

----------

Woz uses and likes Android devices so it's difficult to take him seriously anymore.
he also uses and likes ios devices. he's agnostic and that's perfectly fine.
Score: 5 Votes (Like | Disagree)
Zellio Avatar
150 months ago
Woz uses and likes Android devices so it's difficult to take him seriously anymore.

You mean he's not a biased Apple fanboy? Imagine that!
Score: 4 Votes (Like | Disagree)
Nismo73 Avatar
150 months ago
A few years ago, I read about a planned movie called "Atari", starring Leonardo DiCaprio as Nolan Bushnell. What happened to this?

They buried the script with the ET cartridges. :p
Score: 4 Votes (Like | Disagree)

Popular Stories

iOS 19 Mock WWDC25 Feature

iOS 19 Expected to Run on These iPhones

Monday March 31, 2025 5:28 pm PDT by
iOS 19 will not be available on the iPhone XR, iPhone XS, or the iPhone XS Max, according a private account on social media site X that has accurately provided information on device compatibility in the past. The iPhone XR, iPhone XS, and iPhone XS Max all have an A12 Bionic chip, so it looks like iOS 19 will discontinue support for that chip. All other iPhones that run iOS 18 are expected...
maxresdefault

Apple Releases iOS 18.4 With Priority Notifications, Ambient Music, New Emoji and More

Monday March 31, 2025 10:03 am PDT by
Apple today released iOS 18.4 and iPadOS 18.4, the fourth major updates to the iOS 18 and iPadOS 18 operating system updates that came out last year. iOS 18.4 and iPadOS 18.4 come two months after Apple released iOS 18.3 and iPadOS 18.3. Subscribe to the MacRumors YouTube channel for more videos. The new software can be downloaded on eligible iPhones and iPads over-the-air by going to...
iPhone 17 Pro 34ths Perspective

iPhone 17 Pro Launching Later This Year With These 10 New Features

Sunday March 23, 2025 10:00 am PDT by
While the iPhone 17 Pro and iPhone 17 Pro Max are not expected to launch until September, there are already plenty of rumors about the devices. Below, we recap key changes rumored for the iPhone 17 Pro models as of March 2025: Aluminum frame: iPhone 17 Pro models are rumored to have an aluminum frame, whereas the iPhone 15 Pro and iPhone 16 Pro models have a titanium frame, and the iPhone ...
AirPods Pro Firmware Feature

Apple Releases New Firmware for AirPods Pro 2 and AirPods 4

Monday March 31, 2025 11:27 am PDT by
Apple today released new firmware updates for all AirPods 4 and AirPods Pro 2 models. The new firmware is version 7E93, up from the 7B21 firmware that was installed on the AirPods Pro 2 and the 7B20 firmware available on the AirPods 4 and AirPods 4 with ANC. It is not immediately clear what new features or changes are included in the new firmware, but we'll update this article should we find ...
watchOS 11 Thumb 2 1

Apple Releases watchOS 11.4 With Sleep Alarm Update

Tuesday April 1, 2025 10:34 am PDT by
Apple today released watchOS 11.4, the fourth major update to the operating system that runs on the Apple Watch. watchOS 11.4 is compatible with the Apple Watch Series 6 and later, all Apple Watch Ultra models, and the Apple Watch SE 2. watchOS 11.4 can be downloaded on a connected iPhone by opening up the Apple Watch app and going to General > Software Update. To install the new software,...
macOS Sequoia Feature

Apple Releases macOS Sequoia 15.4 With Mail Categorization and More

Monday March 31, 2025 10:04 am PDT by
Apple today released macOS Sequoia 15.4, the fourth major update to the macOS Sequoia operating system that launched in September. macOS Sequoia 15.4 comes two months after the launch of macOS Sequoia 15.3. Mac users can download the ‌‌macOS Sequoia‌‌ update through the Software Update section of System Settings. It is available for free on all Macs able to run macOS 15. With...
top stories 2025 03 29

Top Stories: WWDC 2025 Announced, iPhone 17 Pro and iOS 19 Rumors, and More

Saturday March 29, 2025 6:00 am PDT by
Apple's big developer event is a little over two months away, and rumors about what we can expect to see in Apple's next major operating system updates are becoming increasingly frequent. A public release of iOS 18.4 is also imminent with a number of updates and improvements, although we won't be getting the major Apple Intelligence Siri upgrades that had reportedly been planned for this...
iOS 19 visionOS UI Elements

Apple Codename Provides Clue About iOS 19's Rumored New Design

Sunday March 30, 2025 6:40 am PDT by
Multiple sources have claimed that iOS 19 will introduce a new design with more translucent buttons, menus, notification banners, and more, and there is now another clue that points towards this glass-like appearance. Bloomberg's Mark Gurman today said the new design project is codenamed "Solarium" internally. A solarium is a room with glass walls that allow in plenty of sunlight, so this...