A5 Chip in Tweaked Apple TV Still Manufactured by Samsung at 32nm

Earlier this week, we opened up the newly tweaked Apple TV to find a remarkably small A5 chip inside rather than an A5X as had been suspected from the device's software posted by Apple over a month ago.

Since that time, we've been talking with chip experts at Chipworks and Silicon-IP about the possibilities and have confirmed that, unlike in the previous Apple TV, this even smaller A5 does not use a stacked chip design involving the DRAM. We were unable to identify the chip to the left of the A5 in our unit due to illegible markings, but Chipworks has cracked open another unit and discovered Elpida DRAM in that location.

a5_2012_2013_comparison

Size comparison of 2012 A5 die with 2013 die

Despite continued rumors that Apple has been working very hard to transition away from Samsung for production of A-series chips, it appears that Apple has not yet been able to make that step on a mass production basis, as this new smaller A5 is still being fabbed by Samsung.

Chipworks has confirmed the die size of this new A5 at 6.1 mm x 6.2 mm, making it just over half the size of the 8.19 mm by 8.68 mm die in the previous version and less than a third the size of the original A5 introduced in the iPad 2 two years ago.

chipworks_a5_7498_die_markDespite confirmation that this new A5 chip is being manufactured by Samsung, Chipworks is still working to confirm the process node for the chip.

Is this new A5 a pipe-cleaner for TSMC in a lower volume (and risk) device? Is this new A5 a lower cost variant that we will see in new lower end phones from Apple? Is it a shrink from Samsung’s 32-nm process to their 28-nm? All were speculated upon, and this time around we can deny the first rumor by confirming that the chip has die markings consistent with the continued use of Samsung as the foundry partner. With respect to the second rumor, we can provide our $.02 that we do expect to see this chip in future Apple devices (such as a possible phone or iPod) because that behavior would be consistent with what they have done in the past. As for the die shrink, the math tells us that the size reduction is more than a simple shrink – some functionality has changed too. We’ll have to wait for the cross-section to see if it is fabbed on the smaller process.

Chipworks' Jim Morrison notes that it is unclear exactly what Apple's larger plans are for this chip, given that the Apple TV is not a high-enough volume product to justify creation of the new chip, so it is possible that Apple intends to use this A5 as a smaller, cheaper, and more power efficient chip for its rumored lower-cost iPhone or perhaps the next-generation of iPod touch. Apple made a similar move last year with the 32-nanometer A5, launching it in the Apple TV and a tweaked iPad 2 before rolling it out on a larger scale in the iPad mini and iPod touch later in the year.

Morrison also notes that, despite this new A5 being manufactured by Samsung, it could still be part of a pipe cleaner run to prepare for a move to TSMC, serving as a reference and fallback option for Apple as TSMC builds its own versions of it.

Also unclear is why Apple is not using a stacked DRAM design for this latest A5, although Silicon-IP's Kurt Wolf suggests that the company may simply still be lining up the process for building it with a package-on-package design. With the Apple TV having ample board space for the separate packages, Apple had little need to wait for a more compact stacked design.

Update 11:22 AM: Chipworks has now confirmed that the new A5 chip still uses the same 32-nanometer process seen on the previous generation, meaning that this nearly 50% smaller chip is truly a new device and not simply a shrink of the earlier design. Chipworks will have more information once it is able to obtain polysilicon die photos to view the layout of the chip.

chipworks_a5_7498_contacts

Related Roundup: Apple TV
Buyer's Guide: Apple TV (Don't Buy)

Popular Stories

iPhone 17 Pro Render Front Page Tech

iPhone 17 Pro Launching Later This Year With These 10 New Features

Sunday March 23, 2025 10:00 am PDT by
While the iPhone 17 Pro and iPhone 17 Pro Max are not expected to launch until September, there are already plenty of rumors about the devices. iPhone 17 Pro's alleged design via Front Page Tech Below, we recap key changes rumored for the iPhone 17 Pro models as of March 2025: Aluminum frame: iPhone 17 Pro models are rumored to have an aluminum frame, whereas the iPhone 15 Pro and iPhone...
iCloud General Feature Redux

iPhone Users Who Pay for iCloud Storage Receive a New Perk

Thursday March 20, 2025 12:01 am PDT by
If you pay for iCloud storage on your iPhone, Apple has a new perk for you, at no additional cost. The new perk is the ability to create invitations in the Apple Invites app for the iPhone, which launched in the App Store last month. In the Apple Invites app, iCloud+ subscribers can create invitations for any occasion, such as birthday parties, graduations, baby showers, and more. Anyone ...
Generic iOS 19 Feature Mock

iOS 19 Coming in June With These New Features

Thursday March 20, 2025 2:04 pm PDT by
While the first iOS 19 beta is still more than two months away, there are already plenty of rumors about the upcoming software update. Below, we recap the key iOS 19 rumors so far. visionOS-Like Design In January, the YouTube channel Front Page Tech revealed a redesigned Camera app that is allegedly planned for iOS 19. According to Front Page Tech host Jon Prosser, the Camera app...
iOS 18

Top 5 New Features Coming in iOS 18.4

Friday March 21, 2025 3:26 pm PDT by
We're not getting new Siri Apple Intelligence features in iOS 18.4 as expected, but the upcoming update does have quite a few new additions that will be worth upgrading for. We've rounded up the five best features to look forward to, and if you're not running the beta, you can expect to get access to these in early April. Priority Notifications If you have an iPhone or iPad that supports...
Generic iOS 18

Apple Seeds iOS 18.4 and iPadOS 18.4 Release Candidate With Priority Notifications, Ambient Music and More

Monday March 24, 2025 10:07 am PDT by
Apple today seeded the release candidate versions of upcoming iOS 18.4 and iPadOS 18.4 updates to developers for testing purposes, with the software coming a week after Apple released the fourth betas. iOS 18.4 and iPadOS 18.4 can be downloaded from the Settings app on a compatible device by going to General > Software Update. With iOS 18.4, Apple is adding the Priority Notifications...
airpods pro 2 gradient

AirPods Pro 3 Launch Now Just Months Away: Here's What We Know

Tuesday March 18, 2025 9:13 am PDT by
Despite being released over two years ago, Apple's AirPods Pro 2 continue to dominate the wireless earbud market. However, with the AirPods Pro 3 expected to launch in 2025, anyone thinking of buying Apple's premium earbuds may be wondering if the next generation is worth holding out for. Apart from their audio and noise-canceling performance, which are generally regarded as excellent for...
Foldable iPhone 2023 Feature Iridescent Search

Foldable iPhone Expected to Launch Next Year, Costing Around $2,000

Monday March 24, 2025 3:43 am PDT by
Apple will launch its long-rumored foldable iPhone next year with a ~$2,000 premium price tag attached, expects well-connected Bloomberg reporter Mark Gurman. Gurman's comments on Apple's launch plans for its first foldable device appeared in the Q&A section of his latest Power On newsletter. Earlier this month, the reporter said Apple's foldable iPhone could be arriving "as early as 2026,"...
airpods max 2024 colors

Don't Buy Into Apple's Hype About AirPods Max Gaining Lossless Audio

Monday March 24, 2025 4:24 pm PDT by
Apple today announced that AirPods Max with a USB-C port will be gaining support for lossless audio and ultra-low latency audio with a firmware update next month, alongside the release of iOS 18.4, iPadOS 18.4, and macOS 15.4. For context, audio files are typically compressed to keep file sizes smaller. There are lossy compression standards like MP3, and Apple's own Advanced Audio Codec...

Top Rated Comments

nepalisherpa Avatar
157 months ago
Apple and Samsung are like husband and wife. They fight every once in a while but they both need each other.
Score: 8 Votes (Like | Disagree)
iGrip Avatar
157 months ago
Thankya, Sammy!

Apple would be in deep trouble if it didn't have Samsung as a close partner.
Score: 7 Votes (Like | Disagree)
alent1234 Avatar
157 months ago
Apple and Samsung are like husband and wife. They fight every once in a while but they both need each other.

business partners have always sued each other and continued to do business

no one paid any attention to it until bloggers came on the scene to link to any halfway interesting story to keep the clicks going

----------

To an end user, a chip maker is just a provider of plumbing and there are many others who can do it . After all, Apple users already use graphics chips made by TSMC and CPUs made by Intel on their Macs, and iPhones and iPads with wireless chips made also by TSMC



Ideally, we would all be using the chips made by the most advanced process available now, which would be Intel, not Samsung. Not that Samsung is a bad chip maker by any means but I suspect the biggest advantage of Samsung is that they have worked together with Apple's engineering team for a long time. Also it's always a big risk when you move your big manufacturing away from your long time supplier.



It's not just a "vain" attempt though. Apple tells Samsung ahead of time what kind of processor they need and what quantity, that could be a valuable information for the competition. Just look at all the noise created by the analysts checking with the suppliers.

the process to manufacture a CPU is different for each design

and when you get to Apple's size going from 32nm to 28nm is a huge money saver so it makes sense to choose your manufacturing partners wisely.
Score: 4 Votes (Like | Disagree)
ChazUK Avatar
157 months ago
If Samsung are the best and most capable at manufacturing these components, it's not really in the users interest to have them made by anyone else is it?

Beyond the Samsung Vs Apple blurb, wouldn't we all appreciate Apple pumping out better hardware even if it is by Samsung?

Going to an inferior supplier will harm everyone with a potential worsened user experience. I've seen plenty of arguments on here about the different display manufacturers and units for example.

Do you want the best that Apple can offer or something slightly worse in a vain attempt at hurting a component supplier?
Score: 4 Votes (Like | Disagree)
iGrip Avatar
157 months ago
A good reason to distance themselves from Samsung don't you think? They are not the only fish in the sea and Apple does not need to feed the Samsung engine any more. They have proven to not be friendly.

If Apple could possibly do without Samsung, that is exactly what would be happening.

But that is not reality.

The reality is that Apple is completely and totally dependent on Samsung as of now. And if Samsung were to pull the cork, Apple would founder and sink to the icy depths.
Score: 3 Votes (Like | Disagree)
hchung Avatar
157 months ago
Disappointing to see Eric Slivka using slang words like fabbed.

Some of the writing on MacRumors is fairly poor, but I've always found Eric's articles to be very well-written.
Using words like "fabbed" has pretty much been normal when talking about chip fabrication for, say, the last 20 years. Certainly feels like it to me.
Not sure that's something to complain about.

Would you complain if you heard somebody say l10n?
Score: 2 Votes (Like | Disagree)