As noticed by several users running the developer preview version of OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion, Apple is no longer including its X11 application for running software through the X Window System interface. A popular option for scientists and others seeking to run specialized UNIX software both on local machines and across networks, X11 has been available on OS X for a number of years and has been included as a default install since Mac OS X Leopard.

x11 mountain lion alert
The X Window System has an extensive open source history, with development on the Mac side being handled under the XQuartz project. Apple's X11 application has been based on this effort, although as with many open source projects bundled for use in commercial software, X11 has generally been somewhat behind the latest XQuartz releases. The current version of X11 is 2.6.3, while XQuartz is currently available in version 2.7.0.

With Mountain Lion, Apple seems to eliminating its dedicated support for the X11 application, instead redirecting users to the open source XQuartz project, which it will continue to support.

Top Rated Comments

jeremyhu Avatar
169 months ago
THis is having an incredible negative effect upon programs in ML.

GIMP wont run even with Xquartz
It runs fine for tons of users. Are you experiencing a specific issue? If so please report a bug.


CrossOver does not launch Windows programs correctly, and instead shuts down
CrossOver ships their own server and does not actually use anything from Apple's X11 except for quartz-wm. I suggest you contact Codeweavers for access to test versions of Crossover that will work on Mountain Lion.


MacPorts is useless (Not just because of X11, but because of changes to Xcode)

Yeah, there are a few bugs to be worked out
As with most updates, MacPorts will need to adjust to this change. We're working on it, and you can follow the thread I started on macports-dev for specific information.

----------

This isn't just a removal, where reinstallation via XQuartz fixes things all nice and neat.
Please use the latest rc version of XQuartz (currently 2.7.1_rc4). As you probably discovered, earlier versions (like 2.7.0) don't fixup some things.


All the underlying launchd mechanisms that made the Apple X11 function so well with previous versions are gone as well. All the automatic $DISPLAY setting methods, for example, are ripped out. Installation of the XQuatrz package does nothing to fix that.
That's not true. XQuartz sets $DISPLAY for you (and always has). You need to logout and log back in to get $DISPLAY. This is mentioned on the download page and in the installer.

----------

Since there's no way to get the old startx methods to work anymore -- because they're just gone.
What do you mean? The entire startup sequence for XQuartz is based on xinit and startx. If you're having issues, please file bug reports with specific information.


This is not something they'll be fixing. I hope XQuartz manages to do something about it, but there are no guarantees. This is the kind of thing that can become orphanware in a hurry.
About what? File bugs, and they'll get fixed in time. I can't fix bugs I don't know about ;)

----------

Bingo! There was no point in Apple shipping it since we could get the latest version via open source. Only problem here is that Apple is no longer guaranteeing that X11 will work when a new version of the OS ships.
Note that All of X11 is based off of public APIs except for a small set of "private" APIs in a library that lives at /usr/lib/libXplugin.dylib ... as long as that library is updated for future releases, it should "just work"


Its possible for OS X to break X11 and the open source XQuartz team to have to quickly produce an update to support new operating system releases.
Yeah, but seeing as how the "open source XQuartz team" is 99% @apple.com, I think that's probably not difficult...


Its probably not much of a concern if you wait a couple weeks after the release of a new version of OS X to upgrade. They should have any required updates available to XQuartz within a few weeks (or possibly before) release of OS X, given the availability of developer previews.
Actually versions of XQuartz that work with Mountain Lion were released well in advance of Mountain Lion. You just need to be using the rc versions of XQuartz. 2.7.1_rc4 works great with it.

----------

Can someone confirm that Matlab works with XQuartz?
Yes.

----------

Make no mistake. XQuartz doesn't work in its present form on ML.

Don't know if I can make it plainer.
File bug reports.


Yep. Installed. Tested. Failed. Debugged. Failed. Next?
You installed the wrong version. Install 2.7.1_rc4.

----------

Is the fact that removing X11 causes various applications to break not a valid concern?
It is a valid concern. Please report problems.


I occasionally use GIMP, but according to various posters, it no longer works, even with XQuartz. Will you be buying me a similar photo editing application so I can work with my photos when 10.8 comes out?
No, but I will fix bugs if you report them. gimp runs fine here, but I'm by no means a gimp power user.
Score: 38 Votes (Like | Disagree)
theluggage Avatar
169 months ago
THis is having an incredible negative effect upon programs in ML.

Yeah. What they ought to do is release some sort of "Developer Preview" 5 or 6 months ahead of the release of the new OS so that developers heard about these things and had time to produce fixes.
Score: 33 Votes (Like | Disagree)
macduke Avatar
169 months ago
Is ML really an update? It seems like a downgrade in many respects.

Do you really know what you're talking about? It seems like you really don't know what you're talking about in many respects.
Score: 18 Votes (Like | Disagree)
godknows Avatar
169 months ago
Is ML really an update? It seems like a downgrade in many respects.

Stuff like this should really be optional. Not everyone uses it.
Score: 18 Votes (Like | Disagree)
KnightWRX Avatar
169 months ago
I guess this will be another "dumbing down" thread. :rolleyes:

Anyone who was using X11 on OS X (myself included) never really bothered with Apple's version anyhow and went straight to XQuartz.
Score: 17 Votes (Like | Disagree)
displaced Avatar
169 months ago
Too early to be worried...

So, the facts are:


* Xquartz is the open source X11-compatible window server for Mac OS X
* Xquartz is maintained by Apple-employed developers. It's an Apple-sponsored open source project.
* The 'X11' app bundled with various OS X releases has historically been a snapshot of the Xquartz code, renamed and integrated with the Mac OS X release.
* There was some extra 'glue' which made the Xquartz snapshot known as X11.app behave extra nice with OS X ($DISPLAY setting, etc)


So the actual change in Mountain Lion is that:


* Apple will no longer be bundling re-labelled Xquartz versions with OS X.
* OS X will instead prompt the user to download Xquartz when an X11-dependent application runs.


Now, clearly there's been a shift in responsibility here. The OS X team no longer take responsibility for integrating Xquartz (branded 'X11') into OS X major releases.

Rather, the Xquartz team (still Apple employees, remember) need to build up their process for producing releases independently of the OS X team. This is where the 'glue's got lost. Whatever OS X used to do for X11.app/Xquartz, Xquartz is now going to have to do for itself. From their point of view, it's almost certainly too early to start down that road since ML is still such a moving target. Hence the lack of integration in the present DP state.

I'm failing to see the malice, neglect or otherwise here. Rather, it's letting the Xquartz team control their schedule and deliver their updates independently of OS X without having to rely on people seeking out and installing Xquartz on their own.

Bear in mind also that the third-party developers will also take a little bit to adjust. They've been used to being able to test against 'the X11 that comes with <OSX_VERSION>. Instead, they'll need to test against the current release of Xquartz.

We're only about 24hrs into Mountain Lion's public history... so let's give everyone involved a chance to sort things out.
Score: 14 Votes (Like | Disagree)

Popular Stories

Generic iOS 19 Feature Mock Light

iOS 19 Leak Reveals All-New Design

Friday January 17, 2025 2:42 pm PST by
iOS 19 is still around six months away from being announced, but a new leak has allegedly revealed a completely redesigned Camera app. Based on footage it obtained, YouTube channel Front Page Tech shared a video showing what the new Camera app will apparently look like, with the key change being translucent menus for camera controls. Overall, the design of these menus looks similar to...
2024 App Store Awards

Apple Explains Why It Removed TikTok From the App Store in the U.S.

Sunday January 19, 2025 6:58 am PST by
Apple on late Saturday removed TikTok from the App Store in the U.S., and it has now explained why it was required to take this action. Last year, the U.S. passed a law that required Chinese company ByteDance to divest its ownership of TikTok due to potential national security risks, or else the platform would be banned. That law went into effect today, and companies like Apple and Google...
2024 iPhone Boxes Feature

Apple Changes Trade-In Values for iPhones, iPads, Macs, and More

Thursday January 16, 2025 6:45 am PST by
Apple today adjusted estimated trade-in values for select iPhone, iPad, Mac, and Apple Watch models in the U.S., according to its website. Some values increased, while others decreased. The changes were not too significant, with most values rising or dropping by $5 to $50. We have outlined some examples below: Device New Value Old Value iPhone 15 Pro Max Up to $630 U ...
Generic iOS 18

Everything New in iOS 18.3 Beta 3

Thursday January 16, 2025 12:39 pm PST by
Apple provided the third beta of iOS 18.3 to developers today, and while the betas have so far been light on new features, the third beta makes some major changes to Notification Summaries and also tweaks a few other features. Notification Summary Changes Apple made multiple changes to Notification Summaries in response to complaints about inaccurate summaries of news headlines. For...
iOS 19 Roundup Feature

iOS 19 Rumored to Be Compatible With These iPhones

Saturday January 18, 2025 10:28 am PST by
iOS 19 will not drop support for any iPhone models, according to French website iPhoneSoft.fr. The report cited a source who said iOS 19 will be compatible with any iPhone that can run iOS 18, which would mean the following models: iPhone 16 iPhone 16 Plus iPhone 16 Pro iPhone 16 Pro Max iPhone 15 iPhone 15 Plus iPhone 15 Pro iPhone 15 Pro Max iPhone 14 iPhon...
iPhone SE Dynamic Island Majin Bu

iPhone SE 4 Leak Shows Dynamic Island, Casts Doubt on Rumored 'iPhone 16E' Name

Monday January 20, 2025 9:01 am PST by
A new iPhone SE is widely rumored to launch this year, and the device has potentially been confirmed today by known leaker Evan Blass. In a private social media post, Blass shared an image of what appears to be source code mentioning an iPhone SE (4th Gen), which casts doubt on the alternative "iPhone 16E" name rumored for the device. However, the name in the source code could be a...
airtag 4 pack blue

AirTag 2 Launching This Year With These 3 New Features

Sunday January 19, 2025 8:11 am PST by
After a four-year wait, a new AirTag is finally expected to launch in 2025. Below, we recap rumored upgrades for the accessory. A few months ago, Bloomberg's Mark Gurman said Apple was aiming to release the AirTag 2 around the middle of 2025. While he did not offer a more specific timeframe, that means the AirTag 2 could be announced by the end of June. The original AirTag was announced...
iPad Pro vs iPhone 17 Air Feature

Here's How Thin the iPhone 17 Air Might Be

Friday January 17, 2025 3:38 pm PST by
For the last several months, we've been hearing rumors about a redesigned version of the iPhone 17 that Apple might call the iPhone 17 "Air," or something along those lines. It's going to replace the iPhone 17 Plus as Apple's fourth iPhone option, and it will be offered alongside the iPhone 17, iPhone 17 Pro, and iPhone 17 Pro Max. We know the iPhone 17 Air is going to be super slim, but...